I didn't want to take the discussion off topic but I appreciate that and thank you! Hacker News is an essential source for developers, founders, designers, software engineers, and anyone obsessed with startups. Brother MFC laser printers have delivered for me for over 15 years now. Since there's no money to be made by companies writing blog posts on debugging a compiler error, Google's algorithm works as intended. These days I feel like I'm fighting the search engine constantly and it is certainly not magically finding what I want anymore. Google search and maps are available on phones made by Apple and Microsoft, too, but Google pays those companies referral fees. But let's try it. The same way some cities limit parking at big events so that people have to take mass transit. > Reddit is one of the last places with huge amounts of publicly accessible online discussions. If there's no public search, it can't be gamed for money. I highly doubt it is true given the fact that the verb "to google" literally means "to search the internet". [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30349460. >But I don't believe they are actually judged on their ability to taste wines and detect flavours. It's a shame that type of community resource isn't more popular. > In fact theres a calculation to be made - what percentage of people return or dislike their drill? There's a thread below with @neffity and I made some changes (trying to get Chrome on iOS to use OpenSearch) and broke that for a little. When you(Google) removed +, so that 'google+ searches' could work without interference, quoting was already a thing, and people were just told by some airhead googler "Oh, but quoting is the same! I think that's why we've probably gone with the message about no matches with and showing the quotes. We already know that personalized ads aren't much netter than context one: This used to be solved by allowing queries like `Class Inheritance +ruby' to require results to include "ruby". I "search" reddit a lot, but all my searches are always through Google. In terms of quotes, again, this does NOT work like +, like verbatim. You could package it as: MySearchEngine App. It used to be a real pain in the neck to reorder something manually, so I'm glad they made that easier. I suspect they know the sound they want to make but they don't know how to articulate it. I just assumed that it was something they do on purpose to get more money from Google. I sometime use GPT-3 to help me write stuff on forum. The Forums and community pages have moved to Facebook, Twitter, Slack, Discord, etc. You should take the absolutely massive amount of recent criticism and the fact that users repeatedly claim it's happening in the face of your claim it's not seriously rather than literally blaming the users writ large for a problem that is fundementally with the behavior of Google search. Is the Miata a good car for a soccer mom? Thanks heaps! I agree with your full sentiment though. Just based on feedback, we have two fairly passionate groups of early users on this topic - some love the conversational interface and others just want it to look like Google. I wish more people realized this. The more people trying new things the better! A factor in there has got to be 'who pays?' I actually don't think Apple could build a good search engine. I'm skeptical that this makes it a winning strategy, but it's conceivable. Yeah, putting you into a male or female bucket, parent or child, homeowner or renter, that's worth a little bit. 1) text appears in ALT text Luckily, Ugh yes thats super annoying! After college, Verbit took a freelance-writing gig with the HOTH, a marketing company that specializes in search-engine optimization. We pay nothing so are not included. The fact that people are clicking on your ads doesn't exactly disprove that hypothesis. It's not idiotic if it's what the people (generally) want. This is not a comment on the search results itself - always appreciate the efforts to break out of the standard google results and surface other sources, but I found the interface confusing and the previews were also taking up a lot of space. On iOS, the system search and browser remains Google/Safari (and the App is essentially just a wrapper on Safari for browsing). Im not a Google fanboy and I think Search does need an overhaul but people are mostly definitely using Google Search. For many people, ads are essentially spam when they take over the entire screen of results (try, say, "best home loans in the US"). 2) text is not readily visible on a page (maybe in a menu bar or small text) I've had so many bad experiences on Amazon that I am increasingly doing just that. So the idea behind that is to let people navigate directly when they want to go somewhere specific, like "go youtube cute cats". Today, I was searching for hearing aids for my dad on my phone and I was stunned by the number of ads, and non-link results. I switched to it and i'm very happy even with searches in my native language for example. Google Search Is Dying. It's horrible. I added the quotes because I wasn't getting what I wanted without them. I dont know if you searched for holocaust information between 2000 and 2008, but deniers routinely showed up in the top results, he told me. By the time Google got big enough for international considerations, there were already a bunch of baked in assumptions about their users, like them being monolingual. I do believe some bosses just looked "bad" when buying in the next Adam Sandler movie. In addition to not knowing what's the ban frequency, there's also no info in those complaints if they got banned for a good reason. Refresh the page, check Medium 's site status, or find something interesting. I don't want to distract from the main topic too much but would love to chat with you if you're open to it. As they no longer focuses on quality which they no longer can measure (measuring time watched and churn is not that useful! SEO is ads Google is failing to monetize. Google Search Is Dying | DKB (2022) A dozen Breaking Bads or Game of Thrones. I understand that custom search engine exclusion is a financial decision by companies that can get away with almost whatever they want to do. People no longer make a choice and don't even realize they have one. I had a car issue recently. I'll give you young and male, but conservative? There's some great comments on this from salman khan, I think. It's happening mostly through the assistants on TVs and locked cellphones. 23. It's similar to selecting a programming language or framework: If I need to know a holiday date (e.g. My apologies again. We make a rough quick count, you go deeper into the page, we make a fresh estimate. Just because I bought something doesn't mean I kept it. Or just quote the words in regular mode then use our before/after commands: So its not just that SEO and botspam has eaten the Google results page, its that this is all thats left of the open internet that needed search to navigate. High quality posters seem to have withdrawn from the site (at least in how much they comment) and what's left is mostly ignorant teenagers and bitter millennials with shitty jobs. The same for trending programmer tools. Just those words. Similar technology should help it with German? It can have this problem even if you are not nonbinary. Reddit is useless for anything which is not highly specific but there are some diamonds in the rough: great subreddits exists about fashion, knives, gardening, coffee, shaving and plenty of other weird interests. I'm sure every major player at this point understands the gains that can be had by astroturfing reddit. . It is in all practical senses impossible for an iPhone or Mac user to change their search engine to a new search engine on Safari or at the iOS level. A search is only a success if it produces something helpful to the searcher, and something they can't understand or won't use = not a successful search. From the July/August 2008 issue: Is Google making us stupid? He spent hours composing listicles with titles like 10 Things to Do When Your Air-Conditioning Stopped Working. Verbit wrote posts that sounded robotic or like they were written by somebody whod just discovered language. He had to write up to 10 posts a day on subjects he knew nothing about. Google Search Is Dying : r/hackernews - Reddit https://searchengineland.com/google-sunsets-search-operator- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3851292/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation. I routinely see queries with quoted keywords where results don't have them highlighted in the snippets on the results page (but do have other, non-quoted keywords highlighted!). The " Google Search is Dying " by the blogger DKB was different from most wakeup calls that go viral. Hope it works!". We'll debug. One potential solution I've wondered about is entry-restrictions and finer grained restrictions on permissions for a community. The long answer is that most of the web has become too inauthentic to trust.". It is the modern template for what the technology critic Shoshana Zuboff termed surveillance capitalism.. It should do both. You have to divide the revenue by some small fraction of current users. It's perhaps a little bit early in its creation to be sharing this but I am working on a new search that should help to fix the problems mentioned in the article, More info about the Dead Internet Theory (DIT). I dont think this means anything for the point you wanted to make about search results, but please note youre exactly wrong about baby talk! If anything if google is an old man at web 1.0 then reddit is an old man at web 2.0. Have you tried this? If Netflix paid $450k+ salaries to screenwriters instead of engineers, you'd very likely get better movies on a worse streaming platform. So I stand by my point, especially on an iPhone, you simply cannot change your search engine to a new search engine like us. The first time I saw a company being upfront about their ad revenue [1] I was surprised. So this has been a pretty popular article on a few tech blogs / websites: https://dkb.io/post/google-search-is-dying If you've tried to search for a. Do you have a link for further reading on that? 5 Ways To Hacker News Google Search Is Dying 2023 - IDEAL Just quote all the words, and that's the same as verbatim. Google reportedly pays $15B per year for that top spot. Reddit is just too wild west to be a google replacement. Maybe Google's decline started when they no longer had competition from Yahoo? I found places were you could buy complete restaurant database ready to be scripted onto the web for maybe 90 a pop. No tracking involved. The reality is a lot of good conversation is locked within social media discussions and reddit is the only one that allows it all to be public by default, hence google + reddit. Why would you believe genetics plays a part? It can change, and it doesn't always make sense and personally, I'd hope we just get rid of counts because of this, perhaps more confusing than helpful. Reddit's user revolt has exposed weaknesses in Google searchand the tech giant's employees are not happy. The vast majority of companies doing "data science" jobs are things that a smart undergrad can do with a month or two of training. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29424094. https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/2466433?hl=en, 1) text appears in ALT text I'd suggest if you see something relevant, apply even if it's in a particular location. This story, for example, was researched, in part, through countless Google Search queries and some Google Chrome browsing, written in a Google Doc, and filed to my editor via Gmail. Some people fit in convenient buckets, but lots of people don't, and assuming all people do, will make the ad system useless to a lot of people. 60+, blue collar, African American, male. There are billions of search users with many different needs, and there is room for different approaches. It may be becoming borderline. Reddit is gamed way more than google. But I don't believe they are actually judged on their ability to taste wines and detect flavours. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29424094. In February, an engineer named Dmitri Brereton wrote a blog post about Googles search-engine decay, rounding up leading theories for why the products results have gone to shit. The post quickly shot to the top of tech forums such as Hacker News and was widely shared on Twitter and even prompted a PR response from Googles Search liaison, Danny Sullivan, refuting one of Breretons claims. Similarly, Google users shape Search. But it does suffer the same drawbacks as a regular App as a browser replacement. Ranking that way would make no sense. I don't believe that you or Google knows better than it's users, for many reasons previously enumerated in this thread and others. Then of course the likely fact that parents have relatively prodigious vocabularies, fluency and articulation. I can google for things without being hit with Ron/Rand Paul narratives, Trump worship, pro-gun narratives, covid skepticism, transphobia, or racist dog whistles. Social Media Marketing Consultant 1mo Report this post Report Report In my country there is reasonably healthy competition between supermarkets. How can you be sure that you're not a bot? I mean you could spend two seconds to search and realize you were in fact mistaken before bothering to write "If I am not mistaken". Thank you. it being a German search engine. Lately, half the results I get are pages that I cant view without paying to some service or signing up for a free trial.. Google literally serves up results that are unreachable .. Can we also talk about how Google allows top organic results to LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook which literally present you with a LOGIN page before you see. Kagi search has an extension. Could you take a look at this one? In 2017, the company started talking publicly about a Search initiative called EAT, which stands for expertise, authoritativeness, and trustworthiness. The company has rolled out numerous quality rater guidelines, which help judge content to determine authenticity. No tracking and no cross site linking. Have you tried Kagi.com? > Ideally you would be able specify the search query in some kind of grammar. Google will transparently present you ads. But what wed really want is a separate recommendation feed that shows the intercept of me + wifes preferences. If this is true it would appear we are doomed to algorithms shaping our online experiences, which is worrying given the existing shrinking diversity of opinion and content. https://seirdy.one/2021/03/10/search-engines-with-own-indexe https://blog.mojeek.com/2022/02/search-choices-enable-freedo https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/25/analysts-google-to-pay-apple- https://www.npr.org/2020/10/22/926290942/google-paid-apple-b https://apps.apple.com/app/hyperweb/id1581824571. bot. I think it just officially entrenched the Reddit orthodoxy and that there is a "right way" to think, and that infected even non-political subreddits. We can show you what we got if we don't require all the word be present. You are wrong about this, iCabMobile allows the user to very easily add search engines: Naturally I expect to be plentifully downvoted for this accurate information, just like pointing-out that iCabMobile has 25 search engines to was also extremely unpopular. In early April, software engineer Dmitri Kyle Brereton published a blog post "Google Search Is Dying" that struck a nerve. We plan to share on HN how we've built it and how it works, and get as much feedback as we can. Google Search Is Dying : r/hackernews - Reddit The reality is that the worse the organic results are, the more likely a user is to click on the ads instead, and that's how Google makes money. But if Google decides I must not have meant what I actually said, there's no way for me to correct that. It tries to be smart and figure out what you really meant" ". I completely agree, love the small communities that form in Reddit and there I can find the experts to ask. HermanCainAward, literally a subreddit celebrating the deaths of the unvaccinated tops all regularly. 1. https://www.fantrax.com/forums/general/messages/public/l72mh IIRC for Facebook American users the average revenue was 50+ dollars per year. Just some generic whether I want to see alcohol and gambling ads on youtube. It sounds like a silly thing, but this is how a lot of scams work: They're testing for people who lack a certain subset of common knowledge. It even gets some rather basic facts (marital status, company size, education) wrong. Nice one. It is the search engines that subtly determine our informational pathways, so variety is healthy. The idea that a genuinely Dead Internet might be an improvement over the current internet experience is a fun one, and one I don't entirely disagree with. Mar 23 23 Image from Canva When I took the plunge into the tech scene three years ago, it was clear that search engines rewarding ads ber alles led to skewed incentives. I search for the following kinds of things on Reddit exactly because results on other sites aren't trustworthy: Reviews are secretly paid ads. > The "best" recipe for pancakes is only what's trending on instagram right now. But it should never be telling you we omitted a quoted word or phrase because we won't -- with one exception. The one page I couldn't find it in (the dolls one) looks like a frequently updating page, and it was highlighted in the snippet, so it looks like it was there at the time of crawling but not now; the cache isn't there for that page. 1 incident recorded. You are absolutely gaslighting people on this! They could very easily conquer the SEO experts the same way they basically eliminated spam and most web browser exploits. Verbits soul crushing job at the HOTH was to write blog posts that would help clients sites rank highly. I doubt it. Google has optimized for working 'most of the time' for 'the most people', and that means striving for fixing the complete word soup of search results people type in. Its "manboy" culture and its super hostile default subs and everyday misogyny, transphobia, and racism scare normal people away. Quality on any non niche popular subreddits were already abysmal long before 2015. For the past few years, across various forums and social-media platforms, people have been claiming in viral posts that Googles flagship product is broken. And the people searching are the product being sold. I want to say so much more here, but it's filled with such vitriol, that I think my terminal would melt. And those 0.1%, or whatever, returning items are very likely to buy another one of a different brand. Take crypto, Haynes explained. That is a clear monopoly over distribution. He recorded the first years of his kid's life at home and documented this phenomenon. To answer it's pronounced Andi like Andy :). Because I'm nervous my neighbors will realize my sheep is electric? Most people dont want their information mediated by bloated, monopolistic, surveilling tech companies, but they also dont want to go all the way back to a time before them. That's the search engine accessed, for example, when a user swipes down on their iPhone home screen, and enters a query into the "Search" field that appears. I also have the same kind of bookmarklet for Reddit and Google Scholar. I don't recall). > And even if you were to use another browser like iCabMobile, it also simply does not let you add in a new search engine not already in its own options. It's very relevant to consider that the value of users is very unequal. Google has rewired us, transforming the way that we evaluate, process, access, and even conceive of information. Is Google Search Slowly Dying? - TheStreet Reddit's search engine is kind of crap (not terrible, but also not great). I've never baby-talked to our son, but I do coach him to say things that are within (or almost) within his speaking capabilities. I just had to add an OpenSearch xml file. Transaction costs are important. > Which they are, evidenced by restricting searches to HN or Reddit. I may not be following you, but are you saying that when you change search engine in your App, it also changes the default search for iOS and Safari system-wide? You have a point but shelf space is physically limited. The main difference is I am using Firefox on Manjaro and not my historically typical environment for searching. I realize that I do not trust the internet at large, and haven't for a long time. Do you see different options now under Settings for search engines and did it change your system-wide search too (i.e. For years, researchers, technologists, politicians, and journalists have agonized and cautioned against the wildness of the internet and its penchant for amplifying conspiracy theories, divisive subject matter, and flat-out false information. "The writing has been on the wall for some time: It's a ridiculously bad tradeoff - we eliminate errors that are trivially fixed by introducing errors that can't be fixed at all. Now that's some sci-fi level of conspiracy but in today's world it seems totally plausible. How much of the German challenge do you think is due to German being an inflected language? But Googles PageRank ranking algorithm helped crack the problem. Let's be blunt here - almost no consumer consciously chooses to use Google search anymore. Search "best XXX for YYY", and I get back two pages of dubious websites that smell like paid ads a mile away. Is your idea of "reddit is conservative" that reddit hosts conservative communities at all? Every other product they have built since search has been about indexing, > The latest conditions on mountain bike and hiking trails are being shared inside communities like Reddit but not on the web. Once you're a subscriber, they want to keep you there as cheaply as possible. I get that's confusing. >My suspicion is that any broadly successful community aggregator will have enough people holding belligerent, incompatible views, that one could never feel truly safe participating there. [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/how-sundar-pichai-rose-to-be > spent most of his time working on "default search engine" (or "default web browser") deals before taking the CEO job. Your comment is kind of like the "reviews". ", it is, "Oh, lemme Google that". Another issue may stem from cookie-tracking changes that Google is implementing in response to privacy laws such as Europes General Data Protection Regulation and the California Consumer Privacy Act. Look at what happened to things like Discovery and The Learning Channel when they became subject to advertising based pressure for ratings. When first rolled out, there were some obvious tells such as an excessive amount of "for the first time this season" or "set a record for the season" in articles about first games of the season. Valid. > If you put a word or a phrase in quotes, we will only find things that have that exact word or phrase. I have yet to find any instance where Google corrects the inside of quotes without any warning. In the olden days, I used bookmark aggregation sites like del.icio.us to search for relevant content, which was generally more fruitful than a Google search. That won't work. There's no modeling going on there that requires sophistication. There's data, and it's not from that study. He was never provided the product he was describing, just told to make it up. I'll summarize the ones that hit me: There's a reason why it seems shocking that Google has been able to balance the ads well enough that people still use it. ", https://startuptalky.com/sundar-pichai-story/, ""Most people here didn't want us to do a browser, so it was a little bit stealthy. I probably do 200 searches per day and google is most likely to give me relevant info on my first query (maybe 80-90% success rate). If reddit was publicly traded and you asked me between google and reddit, I'd say buy google 100%. And yet, in the early days, there was much more search competition than there is now; Yahoo, Altavista, and Lycos were popular online destinations. DDG is already a comparable privacy first search engine. > So here's a challenge, try adding a search engine not on that list. I commented[1] about this a few months back with a random phrase as an example. Does someone have a concrete example when using quotes results in pages not containing the search terms? One, I mostly dislike using Reddit - I only want to see specific discussions very occasionally. My pointing to a single active forum doesn't change the fact that many of other enthusiast groups have moved to facebook groups and the like. At least France and Belgium have public websites with the information sheets of all authorized drugs. Do you have anything substantive to support this? I think it works well for search results. Following your example, if Google spammed Pixel ads on it's home page, the page would become less popular. They charge about $20 per user per year to remove ads. Feed me!" /r/nfl had a reputation for high-quality content and wasnt a particular battleground in the Trump Wars. Almost any programmer will find a SO result as the top result and it's usually exactly what you're looking for. This is Google we're talking about. I expect that sentence/paragraph completion is already becoming useful to people who churn out quick content for a living. Query rewriting is a horrific technique in general with almost zero value to life/society outside of fixing spelling errors. If I had to guess, Netflix's data-driven approach to content production is like card-counting in blackjack. I can think of people willing to pay for quality searches - professionals looking for things they need, like programmers, lawyers, researchers, etc. The best way of doing that, until we find some way of creating institutional trust in these matters, is talking to the sort of person that spends all day in talking to a chat room about whatever it is you're asking about. A blog post making the argument that Google Search is dying shot to . Is #Google dying? Or did the web grow up? | bluesyemre Even if DuckDuckGo and Bing pay absolutely nothing, it's good leverage to make Google pay even more, and its already public knowledge Google pays a lot to remain the default search engine on iOS, to the tune of billions of dollars a year: I use my own server for search. My understanding is that it took a significant amount of effort and public lobbying for them to get added to that list, and it was back in 2014 that was announced. I think it would be foolish to assume google hasn't spent hundreds of hours in meetings talking about what they can do about everyone having to type reddit. It comes from the same places as Google, where people know the value of this community's attention. That's what people are searching for. type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" Probably junk food should be taxed (as alcohol is) for the related health externalities.